Austin Debate
For those of you Bourbon Room loyalists, you well remember — or may have been trying to forget — my near-rhapsodic take on the Los Angeles debate, the first Hillary Clinton-Barack Obama tilt of the campaign.
No need to rhapsodize tonight. Instead of my thoughts, tonight I will pose a series of questions that may help us decide what mattered most and how the debate did or did not change the arc of this fascinating and historic Democratic pursuit of the presidency.
Note: Some questions I will answer for you. Have no fear, the answers will lead to other questions The Bourbon Room promises not to answer.
Here we go.
1. What does camp Clinton consider THE most important moment of the debate?
The lengthy and “passionate” exchange over universal health care?
No.
The debate over whether or not to impose a five-year moratorium on adjustable rate mortgages, as Clinton proposes and Obama opposes?
No.
The debate over how Clinton would restore “fiscal discipline” by ending Bush tax breaks for the wealthy and ending the Iraq war to invest in new infrastructure and start new “clean green jobs”?
No.
The answer came from Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson in the form of an e-mail sent to reporters at 9:57 p.m. EST, mere moments after the debate ended. The full contents of the Wolfson e-mail are reprinted here:
“What we saw in the final moments in that debate is why Hillary Clinton is the next president of the United States. Her strength, her experience, her compassion. She’s tested and ready. It was the moment she retook the reins of this race and showed women and men why she is the best choice.”
Question: Do you agree and do you see anything relevant at all in the near-instantaneous framing of the “moment” by Sen. Clinton’s campaign?
Question: Does the following e-mail sent to reporters at 10:15 p.m. EST by Bill Burton, national spokesman for Barack Obama’s campaign, carry any weight with you?
“Clinton tonight: You know, whatever happens, we’re going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we’ll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that’s what this election should be about.”
The Burton e-mail then includes this quote from John Edwards: “What’s not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what’s at stake is whether America is going to be fine.” The quote comes from a Democratic candidate debate on Dec. 13, 2007.
UPDATE from the Obama campaign at 11:35 p.m. EST:
Burton sent this e-mail: Yet another line lifted for what was her “best moment.”
Clinton tonight: “You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country. And I resolved at a very young age that I’d been blessed and that I was called upon by my faith and by my upbringing to do what I could to give others the same opportunities and blessings that I took for granted. That’s what gets me up in the morning. That’s what motivates me in this campaign.”
President Clinton: “When the history of this campaign is written, they may say, well, Bill Clinton took a lot of hits in this campaign. The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits that people in this state and country are taking every day of their lives under this administration (Aug. 14, 2000).
Question: Does this second Obama e-mail on the Clinton “moment” matter to you or suggest anything to you about the degree of concern camp Obama has about the “moment”?
Which leads to a related question. Did you consider Clinton’s line against Obama on the question of lifting lines (or trading them) from/with Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick memorable? To jog your memory Clinton said: “That’s not change you can believe in, that’s change you can Xerox.”
Next question. Do you remember Clinton saying more frequently she agreed with Obama or Obama saying more frequently that he agreed with Clinton? Your answer, based on your recollection of the debate is more important than the actual answer (which, to be honest, The Bourbon Room doesn’t have).
The related question is this: Generally, considering the current context of the race and Obama’s 11 straight victories (Obama won the Democrats Abroad primary today), does Clinton agreement with Obama on issues do more for Obama than his agreement with her on issues?
Question: Does it matter to you that in a 2003 questionnaire, Obama said he favored normalizing relations with Cuba (http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2007/12/sweet_column_obamas_2003_iviip.html), but tonight said he would not normalize relations with Cuba unless it pursues human rights and democratic reforms.
Question: Do you think the gap between Clinton and Obama narrowed or expanded on whether the next president should negotiate directly with U.S. enemies such Cuba, Iran and North Korea?
Question: Can you remember a significant difference that emerged in nearly 10 minutes of debate over how to revive the U.S. economy?
Question: Do you understand the difference between Clinton and Obama on the pursuit of universal health care coverage? Does it strike you as an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin difference or a crucial philosophical divide?
Question: Do you agree or disagree with Obama’s assertion the Iraq troop surge represents a “tactical victory” that is hopelessly ensnared in major “strategic blunder”?
Question: Do you believe Obama’s surge answer, if he’s the Democratic nominee, will be viewed as one of strength in the inevitable Iraq debates with Sen. John McCain?
Question: Which is the logical sequence in a republic as politically complex as ours: change then solutions, or solutions then change?
Question: Did Obama look to you more or less presidential than in the previous 18 debates?
Question: Did you think Clinton faced the hardest debate of this campaign in light of her poor post-Super Tuesday performances and, as such, deserves higher marks for pluck, poise and determination?
Question: Did either Obama or Clinton answer the final “crisis” question and does that matter to you?
The answers are yours. The election is yours, especially in Texas, Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont on March 4 (remember Texans, early voting is occurring NOW).
Tags: Burton, Clinton, Cuba, Debate, economy, Edwards, health care, McCain, Obama, Wolfson
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Hillary’s open was excellent at framing her case for “experience and ready on day one”. Her close was even more effective. She has been around the block. Her life and political experience, and knowledge far exceeds Barack Hussain Obama’s.
Ben Franklin in his autobiography says he was once moved by the passionate speaking of the well known preacher Geroge Whitfield to give all the money he had on him for the support of orphans in Georgia. Ben said he had attended the event determined NOT to give. Barack Hussain’s greatest strength, like Whitfield, is his passionate speaking ability. That is a gift. However, at the end of the day, we must have leaders with substance, that are far beyond being charismatic……..
Indeed, we need those charismatic speaking attributes in our preachers, but we must have tested and proven leadership when it comes to those who must deal with the challenges and scope of being president of the greatest nation on earth.
As a resident of Austin Texas, with two Masters degrees, and a record of NEVER, since 1976 voting for a democrate, I WILL CAST MY VOTE TO SUPPORT HILLARY CLINTON.
May we all find within us the insight to decern between passion and reason. The future and security of our nation depends on it.
I do believe Obama did better then he did in the last debate however I believe most of the questions were pretty dull and some open ended. Hillary did very well and some of the Obama supporters on here should take note of this. As a hispanic, I can not see how Obama clicked with me. I have been undecided and I really see now that Hillary is going to be my choice. He did not show me that he knew what it was to live without. He also confused me about the whole Cuba thing. I believe that my voice is clearly heard with Hillary
Hillary really struck me when she spoke of how she would bring healthcare reform. I especially loved when she brought up how we would become more diplomatic and be perceived as a friend rather then a foe. I did not like Obama’s arrogant statement on how well he gives speeches. I do not look for this kind talk. I did not click with him. I feel like he sometimes repeated, “I agree with Hillary” playing it safe rather then showing himself for what he is. I don’t understand how someone could perceived him winning.
Hillary really struck me when she spoke of how she would bring healthcare reform. I especially loved when she brought up how we would become more diplomatic and be perceived as a friend rather then a foe. I did not like Obama’s arrogant statement on how well he gives speeches. I do not look for this kind talk. I did not click with him. I feel like he sometimes repeated, “I agree with Hillary” playing it safe rather then showing himself for what he is. I don’t understand how someone could perceived him winning.
What is this mess you just posted? Just say what you thought of the debate. Too many questions to answer in a short time.
note Obama’s full answer at the debate about the surge - McCain needs to brace himself
“BROWN: Senator Obama, in the same vein, you were also opposed to the surge from the beginning. Were you wrong?
OBAMA: Well, I think it is indisputable that we’ve seen violence reduced in Iraq. And that’s a credit to our brave men and women in uniform.
In fact, you know, the 1st Cavalry, out of Fort Hood, played an enormous role in pushing back al Qaeda out of Baghdad.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: And, you know, we honor their service.
But this is a tactical victory imposed upon a huge strategic blunder.
(LAUGHTER)
And I think that, when we’re having a debate with John McCain, it is going to be much easier for the candidate who was opposed to the concept of invading Iraq in the first place to have a debate about the wisdom of that decision…
(APPLAUSE)
… than having to argue about the tactics subsequent to the decision.
(LAUGHTER)
Because, ultimately, that’s what’s at stake. Understand, not only have we been diverted from Afghanistan. We’ve been diverted from focusing on Latin America.
We contribute — our entire foreign aid to Latin America is $2.7 billion, approximately what we spend in Iraq in a week.
OBAMA: And it is any surprise, then, that you’ve seen people like Hugo Chavez and countries like China move into the void, because we’ve been neglectful of that.
Iran is the single biggest strategic beneficiary of us having invaded Iraq, and that is something that I think John McCain has to come to terms with.
So that is a debate that I’m happy to have.
One last point I want to make on this, and that is, the incredible burden that has been placed on the American people, starting with military families, and the fact that we still are not doing right by our veterans, that we still don’t honor their service, that there are still homeless veterans, that we still don’t screen properly for post-traumatic stress disorder and make sure that they’re getting mental services that they need, that we are still…
(APPLAUSE)
… having veterans in south Texas have to drive 250 miles to access a veterans hospital.
OBAMA: That’s unacceptable. But we talked about the economy earlier, the fact that we’re spending $12 billion every month in Iraq means that we can’t engage in the kind of infrastructure improvements that are going to make us more competitive. It means that we can’t deliver on the kinds of health care reforms that both Senator Clinton and I are looking for.
And that is also an argument that we have to have with John McCain because he has said that he is willing to have these troops over there for 100 years. The notion that we would sustain that kind of effort and neglect not only making us more secure here at home, more competitive here at home, allow our economy to sink. As John McCain says, he doesn’t really understand the economy that well. It is clear from his embrace of George Bush’s policies that he doesn’t, and that’s what I intend to change when I am president of the United States of America.”
I just watched it for entertainment.
I think every one has made up their minds by now and these debates are just re-hashed stump speeches.
I wouldn’t vote for either one of them. Marxist socialism scares me.
McCain for me.
From TIME, on the web today - why not ask Hillary about Xeroxing “words”?
“bloggers unearthed the similarity between a line she used in that powerful conclusion of the debate—”You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country”—and Bill Clinton’s 1992 declaration that: “The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
From TIME, today, on the web.
“bloggers unearthed the similarity between a line she used in that powerful conclusion of the debate—”You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country”—and Bill Clinton’s 1992 declaration that: “The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
OK So why did no body catch this last night? No news agency even picked up on it to ask questions!!! Anyway, think it is EXTREMELY newsworthy!
So here it is…
Hillary Xeroxed Bill Clinton’s lines IN LAST NIGHTS DEBATES!
Yep, it is absolutely true! Here is a video of Hillary Clinton using (Plagiarizing) the same basic line Bill Clinton Used in both 2000 and 1992:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7Cs3QvT3U
Senator Clinton said the following Last night:
“You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country…”
In February of 1992 Bill Clinton said the following:
“The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of New Hampshire are taking every day.”
Reference article:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=231808
Also in November of 1992 Bill said the following:
“The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time.”
Reference article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DF1E3CF937A35752C1A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
She’s been through so much in her life… Whitewater, rumors of insider trading on cattle futures, illicit dealings with The Rose Law Firm. And then there were the horrible events associated with Filegate and Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Jim McDougal, and many other people, dying in droves around them. And that poor Susan McDougal, and the unfortunate circumstance surrounding Sandy Berger and those nasty documents stolen from the National Archives. And, oh the burden of having to be complicit in covering up all of Bill’s illicit love affairs, more than any woman could possibly bear!
She felt so betrayed, perhaps this is why she went on a last-minute shopping spree in the White House…26K in federal furnishings!
This woman and her husband are frauds being perpetrated on the American public. I will never cast a vote for her.
About Hillary Clinton’s final words in the Austin, Texas debate Thursday night–They are being related to as “the finest moment of her campaign”. In fact these words were directly plagerized from at least three speeches by John Edwards. For someone who is so sensitive to plagerism to attack the use of lines by Barak Obama that were given to him by his friend and co-campaign chairman, it is, at best, disingenuous and hypocrital to have her “finest moment” be a stolen one.
(taken from the debate transcript)
SEN. CLINTON: And you know, whatever happens, we’re going to be fine. You know, we have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we’ll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that’s what this election should be about. Thanks. (Cheers, applause.)
Those words– clearly not in response to the question about her most remembered crisis time—allowed her to end with Sen. Edwards emotional phrases, and should not be mistaken for or praised as her own.
I voted early on the quiet community college campus where I have voted for years. (north of Dallas)
Usually the voters were similar to me - a few white middle aged females.
Today the voters were startling and diverse.
There were Hispanics and African American females, young and chatty.
I had never seen either ethnic group there before.
For the first time, I had to wait in line to present my identification.
If my small sampling is any indication of today’s voters, we are indeed witnessing a wonderful change.
Hey, “Less Hat and More Cattle”, right?
This from a rich and privileged Yalie socialist who doesn’t even know what cowspit smells like.
But she must know something about cattle, having turned a 100k profit on a mere thousand dollars in one day in the cattle futures market. All of that without insider trading, right.
And she courts the Hispanic vote there? Get a clue Hillary, if we do the right thing and enforce against illegal immigration, then the 260 billion dollar annual cost to the middle class could easily cover meaningful healthcare reform.
That being said, I believe any attempt to establish tighter governmental control and mandatory provisions for healthcare in America would lead to less health care quality, loss of free choice, and an overall decline of care.
OBAMA VS. HILLARY
OBAMA VS. HILLARY
Here we have two candidates fighting for the right to get your vote to become POTUS. People only need to really look at a persons complete voting record not just on the IRAQ WAR.
http://obama.senate.gov/votes/
Many times Obama has not even voted for anything at all .I will say go look at his record and see how many “NO VOTES” are recorded.
Obama is related to Repulican Dick Cheney, and George Bush now downplays it during campaign stops to joke it off. If you were to really look deep, you would find that all Obama has done was mold his campaign from the Clinton, Edwards and Richardsons campaigns. And now he is related to the Repulican Party of Cousins.
http://garlinggauge.com/2007/10/17/shock-barack-obama-related-to-dick-cheney-and-president-bush/
Xerox, yes. That is exactly what has been going on in his camp, flip flopping all the way to the Bank with all those poor people’s money that cannot afford to put food on their kids plate but can send in 200.00 donations.
He uses other peoples words in speeches as well as takes positions others have been fighting for years to get done and makes it like he can get it done and because he changes a word or phrase it was all his idea. Healthcare, Economy, Race Relations, and War.
It is one thing to Vote for a War that was neccessary based on the evidence and intelligence that was given to all senators, but to vote NO is UNPATRIOTIC!!!
What will he do as President, not TRUST his own government staff who are giving him the intelligence and evidence gathered and allow our country to be attacked.
Obama, you really need to get real with your own message and stop using everyone else’s catch phrases and momentum “Si Se Puede, was a phrase used by the Great Cesar Chavez.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/01/ED142873.DTL
Now go look at the Ungrateful words towards America that the possible future First Lady has shed new light on her history. Here is her College Thesis.
http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf
Communism it seems was Obama’s passion as a young man and is relayed in his Book. How could we have a possible communist party loyalist now wanting to be head of the USA.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor/
This election is causing more and more race related issues to pin Black and Hispanics against one another we have to stop that type of hype and realize that we are all Americans and nobody is owed anything. My parents have always taught us that we are judged on Hard work and Honesty.
If we were to look at all the facts and experience needed to run this Great Nation we would see what a powerful force we could be all as minorites and majorities is working together to take back this Country.
Slavery though it was not called that was also a part of the Hispanic Population during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s Mexicans were promised Land and Prosperity for working the Fields of Cotton, Corn and Oil. Most ended up with nothing at all.
My Great Grandmother worked the cotton fields in Pflugerville gave birth to my Great Uncle one minute and went immediately back to work placing the child in a basket next to her whole she worked the fields picking the crops we all take for granted now.
VOTE EARLY FOR THE ONLY CANDIDATE THAT WILL PROTECT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AND HAS A PROVEN RECORD. WE REALLY NEED EVERY AVAILABLE PERSON TO GET OUT THERE AND VOTE, CONTRIBUTE AND BE A PART OF THE MOST AWSOME TIME OF OUR LIVES.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/
Major - I’m sure you won’t post this, and that’s o.k., as I just wanted the chance to let you know that it is reporters like you who have turned me and so many off to Fox, CNN, NBC, etc. This is the citizens of America’s election of our next President - not the MSM.
I will say that I have recently only watched Fox News due to bias of other MSM, but now YOU have turned me off to Fox News. The only one I have respect for anymore is E.D. Hill. What happened to “fair and balanced” Fox News??
I have always respected John McCain, as I believe he has done his best to be an honorable fella despite his past years as a POW. He could easily have become cynical about the U.S. just as the Obama’s have become toward America, but he chose to love America for it’s good and bad. On the other hand, Obama’s have both been given so much in life and have so many blessings and then have the gall to say “poor me”, is just pitiful. They should be thankful everyday for what they do have - glass half full or half empty???
So, you can continue to bash Senator Clinton as you wish, but I believe if she ever mentioned that she didn’t love her country, it would be the end of her. Instead, it is quite apparent she does believe in Americans and has passion to do what she can to help, and would be a much better President for our country than Obama. It is so obvious that in the debates that Senator Clinton has been asked the questions first (the last CNN debate was a great example), cause then Obama can just play off what she said. In my heart of hearts, I know that Obama has some skeletons in his closet that hopefully one day will come out, but for now he has fooled American citizens and it’s a shame. I fault not only Obama, but all of the MSM who have tried to brain wash all of us into believing he is some pure, higher-than-thou politician. I don’t think so. I have done some research myself on this guy and it’s scary! I disrespect you and your personal attempts to discredit Senator Clinton. It really is disgusting and a women who has worked hard all her life, despite her reasons deserves just as much positive coverage as someone who has presented themselves as Obamas have — to me simple acts such as placing hand on heart, wearing a lapel flag pin are something that I believe show respect to our country and to the many Americans who are trying to defend our country - to me that is a slap in the face to them! And, when Mrs. Obama had the nerve to say that for the first time in her adult life she is proud to be an American is simply amazing — where has she lived her life — what a spoiled, unthankful person. I could NEVER respect her as First Lady and it will be a sad day for America if that become reality. How can she expect us to respect her, if she does not feel that she has been blessed in so many ways???
So, I think that the article you have written is just to bring on more negative for Senator Clinton and guess what — it’s reporters like you who have pushed so many more of us to support and vote for Senator Clinton. I am one of them. You have lost my respect (know that doesn’t mean much to you, but that’s o.k.) and I believe this article shows the type of person you are and I don’t want any part of — I pray everyday that Obama will finally be shown for what he really is and Senator Clinton makes a comeback and wins Texas and Ohio. To end, your reporting is appalling and the way you just glow when you speak so positive of Obama and negative of Senator Clinton really is disgusting. Goodbye to Fox News…
Please ask Obama why he thinks we can’t afford the war…
BUT THE TAXPAYERS CAN AFFORD TO KEEP PAYING FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Paying for illegal aliens is costing taxpayers FAR MORE than paying for the war…
with NO end in sight…
at least the war will end … the constant flood of illegals will no..
especially with Obama vowing shamnesty.
I see that there are NO COMMENTS, could it be that you commentary is so boring and filled with lies and that you are just another “White Male future president Hillary Rodham Clinton hater”
Try to be a real reporter and peer into the truths of both Barack Hussein Obama and Hillary Rodham Clanton.
Question to Major Garrett:
There is a truism that states; “THE ANSWER IS IN THE QUESTION”
In other words how you frame your question is the answer you are looking for, ie,
Question: Did Obama look to you more or less presidential than in the previous 18 debates?
Which indicates that Obama looks presidential but did you think he looked MORE OR LESS
presidential.
My answer would be that he never looked presidential nor will he ever look presidential.
SO TRY NOT TO BE SO OBVIOUSLY BIASED AGAIN YOUR FURTURE PRESIDENT:
President Hillary Rodham Clinton, the finest president in the history of America’s Presidents
obaqma will be shot by someone from the south more than likely - there is a lot of hatred for the racist of a candidte and for attending a pro-black only church and not a church of the word of God plus following his preacher for 20 years that admires Farakhan as ‘greatness” -
If Clinton doesn’t go in then they’ll see if MccAin goes in is what I am told by a hethen relative of mine in Bibb county ALabama and if he gets past McCain then they’ll take him and his wife out for her anti proud AMerican remarks - get ready for your city to be burned by blacks lashing oput
stockpile plenty of food - this is an inevitable event to come
Woah! scary - but the rest of the world must feel very scared as well knowing an inexperienced candidate is leading now especially the Isrealis since obama has muslim ties
Clinotn or McCain ‘08
It is clear that FNC is no longer fair and balanced. You are pushing Sen Clinton. CNN is pushing Sen Clinton as well. Are you trying to “hang” Sen Obama? Sen Obama has the lead in the pop vote and delegates. You make it sound like he is behind, what’s up with your reporting…………..?
I have given a number of my comments and opinions about the reporting of the politcial race; for the record I do not and would not vote for any of the canidates, dems or reps. However, I do enjoy a good news channel and I miss the fair and balance reporting of FNC and CNN. Both agencies have gone political and are pushing Clinton. What has happened to prof reporting?
Why is Bush dancing at the White House and every time he is on the air and we are paying over $4 per gal for gas and deisel. The public is not dancing!!!!Jobs are leaving this country and taxes are be increased and where is the reporting on these issues? If you want to go political talk about the mess the country is in and give some solutions for the changes. What is the answer to a better life right here at home????????????